GaetanL
Member
First of all, I want to make it clear that I love this game. Even though I'm going to be somewhat critical here, I'm mostly going to talk about design choices, and ultimately I adapt to whatever choices are made. However, I think it's worth having this discussion because among the recurring criticisms, this is one area that I believe deserves some serious consideration.
Also I regret that the developers aren't more transparent or simply communicate more with us about some of the topics I'm about to discuss, so I will inevitably have to make a few assumptions. Since the developers receive feedback from real-world drivers, including drivers of the very cars represented in the game, I'll use that as the basis for those assumptions.
From what I know about rFactor 2 and its ISI Motor 2.5 architecture, my impression is that LMU has seen its biggest changes on the graphics side with gMotor. By contrast, pMotor appears to be very similar, if not identical, to what existed before, while TGM seems to have been revised somewhat, but not nearly as extensively as the graphics engine.
As a result, LMU is still fundamentally built on a simulation framework designed to reproduce reality. Any attempt to alter or adapt vehicle behavior in one direction or another will inevitably come with limitations and compromises. I think that's important because every design choice made today inherits those underlying constraints.
The purpose of this thread is to reflect on what we actually want from the game. I see many complaints regarding online driving standards, and while some of those issues are obviously linked to player behavior (thanks, Captain Obvious...
), I believe they are also connected to certain developer decisions regarding the physics and tire models. I'll try to explain why.
When the developers reduced grip back in 2025, I wrote at the time "I repeat, the real judge will be online races (especially daily ones), where overconfidence is no longer punished and anything will go; it's really going to hurt."(July 2025)
I won't revisit that entire debate, but the fact remains that a properly warmed-up slick tire provides an incredible amount of grip. Since then, through various updates, grip has been increased again to some extent, and several parameters have been adjusted. The situation is certainly less problematic than it was back then. We still have faster tire warm-up (which, admittedly, I'm quite happy about
) but we also have a touch more understeer and some braking-related issues on certain cars, particularly Hypercars such as the Alpine and Cadillac (Even Charles Milesi has commented on those issues).
The advantage of moving closer to real-life tire behavior is that it actually makes the car easier for beginners to drive. I repeat but properly warmed-up slicks really do offer significantly more grip than what we currently have in LMU. More grip allows for greater precision during close racing. The downside, however, is that when a driver exceeds the limit, the punishment is immediate ( That's mostly relevant for experienced drivers pushing at the edge although some beginner mistakes could also be punished more severely).
This is one important point, but not the most important one in my opinion when it comes to online racing and the accident rates frequently discussed on this forum.
Second it's slipstream. For me, one of the biggest causes of unnecessary contact is the lack of slipstream effect.
To support this argument, I'll refer to a real LMP3 driver rather than relying on my own limited track experience on slick tires. While I've driven on circuits before and even had the chance to drive a nearly 650-horsepower Corvette C6, I've never driven an LMP3 or a GT3 car. So this avoids the inevitable "you have no idea what you're talking about" response.
First, at 2:20, he reminds viewers that tire warm-up in the game is already heavily simplified. As I suggested earlier, making such compromises inevitably affects other aspects of tire behavior, including grip, braking, breakaway characteristics, and so on.
He also discusses force feedback and how it compensates for the lack of real-world physical sensations. In short, his conclusion is that LMU does an excellent job in that area and feels very realistic.
The part that interests me most begins at 18:10, when he talks about slipstream. He explicitly state (and also points out that this isn't unique to LMU) that the aerodynamic tow effect is dramatically reduced compared to reality. In his estimation, it is roughly three times weaker than it should be. The sim racer participating in the discussion raises a point that I completely agree with: the lack of realistic slipstream actually encourages poor racing behavior. Because we cannot reproduce many real-world overtaking scenarios, drivers compensate by attempting more divebombs. Those become the only remaining opportunities to pass.
Increasing the slipstream effect would have clear advantages:
Conclusion, If the goal is to improve online racing, my priority would be implementing a significantly more realistic slipstream effect.
To me, that seems like the simplest and quickest improvement to make, although I freely admit that I don't know enough about the technical implementation to be certain.
If that results in complaints about cars becoming more difficult to drive when following closely through corners, so be it. If LMU is meant to be a simulation, then dealing with dirty air is part of the racing experience and should be taken into account (After all, there are plenty of other games available for people who don't want realistic aerodynamic effects).
I genuinely believe that correcting the slipstream model would solve a large part of the problem by itself.
Then, if we really wanted to go further, we could revisit the tire model and restore a bit more grip, similar to what we had previously. Personally, I wouldn't even mind if tire warm-up is more difficult. Race starts already happen on warm tires, and tire blankets are available in the pits when needed.
Perhaps with those changes alone, we'd end up with calmer, cleaner, and more enjoyable online racing
.
Also I regret that the developers aren't more transparent or simply communicate more with us about some of the topics I'm about to discuss, so I will inevitably have to make a few assumptions. Since the developers receive feedback from real-world drivers, including drivers of the very cars represented in the game, I'll use that as the basis for those assumptions.
From what I know about rFactor 2 and its ISI Motor 2.5 architecture, my impression is that LMU has seen its biggest changes on the graphics side with gMotor. By contrast, pMotor appears to be very similar, if not identical, to what existed before, while TGM seems to have been revised somewhat, but not nearly as extensively as the graphics engine.
As a result, LMU is still fundamentally built on a simulation framework designed to reproduce reality. Any attempt to alter or adapt vehicle behavior in one direction or another will inevitably come with limitations and compromises. I think that's important because every design choice made today inherits those underlying constraints.
The purpose of this thread is to reflect on what we actually want from the game. I see many complaints regarding online driving standards, and while some of those issues are obviously linked to player behavior (thanks, Captain Obvious...
), I believe they are also connected to certain developer decisions regarding the physics and tire models. I'll try to explain why.When the developers reduced grip back in 2025, I wrote at the time "I repeat, the real judge will be online races (especially daily ones), where overconfidence is no longer punished and anything will go; it's really going to hurt."(July 2025)
I won't revisit that entire debate, but the fact remains that a properly warmed-up slick tire provides an incredible amount of grip. Since then, through various updates, grip has been increased again to some extent, and several parameters have been adjusted. The situation is certainly less problematic than it was back then. We still have faster tire warm-up (which, admittedly, I'm quite happy about
) but we also have a touch more understeer and some braking-related issues on certain cars, particularly Hypercars such as the Alpine and Cadillac (Even Charles Milesi has commented on those issues).The advantage of moving closer to real-life tire behavior is that it actually makes the car easier for beginners to drive. I repeat but properly warmed-up slicks really do offer significantly more grip than what we currently have in LMU. More grip allows for greater precision during close racing. The downside, however, is that when a driver exceeds the limit, the punishment is immediate ( That's mostly relevant for experienced drivers pushing at the edge although some beginner mistakes could also be punished more severely).
This is one important point, but not the most important one in my opinion when it comes to online racing and the accident rates frequently discussed on this forum.
Second it's slipstream. For me, one of the biggest causes of unnecessary contact is the lack of slipstream effect.
To support this argument, I'll refer to a real LMP3 driver rather than relying on my own limited track experience on slick tires. While I've driven on circuits before and even had the chance to drive a nearly 650-horsepower Corvette C6, I've never driven an LMP3 or a GT3 car. So this avoids the inevitable "you have no idea what you're talking about" response.
He also discusses force feedback and how it compensates for the lack of real-world physical sensations. In short, his conclusion is that LMU does an excellent job in that area and feels very realistic.
The part that interests me most begins at 18:10, when he talks about slipstream. He explicitly state (and also points out that this isn't unique to LMU) that the aerodynamic tow effect is dramatically reduced compared to reality. In his estimation, it is roughly three times weaker than it should be. The sim racer participating in the discussion raises a point that I completely agree with: the lack of realistic slipstream actually encourages poor racing behavior. Because we cannot reproduce many real-world overtaking scenarios, drivers compensate by attempting more divebombs. Those become the only remaining opportunities to pass.
Increasing the slipstream effect would have clear advantages:
- More realistic overtaking opportunities.
- Fewer desperation divebombs.
- Racing that more closely resembles what we see in the real WEC.
Conclusion, If the goal is to improve online racing, my priority would be implementing a significantly more realistic slipstream effect.
To me, that seems like the simplest and quickest improvement to make, although I freely admit that I don't know enough about the technical implementation to be certain.
If that results in complaints about cars becoming more difficult to drive when following closely through corners, so be it. If LMU is meant to be a simulation, then dealing with dirty air is part of the racing experience and should be taken into account (After all, there are plenty of other games available for people who don't want realistic aerodynamic effects).
I genuinely believe that correcting the slipstream model would solve a large part of the problem by itself.
Then, if we really wanted to go further, we could revisit the tire model and restore a bit more grip, similar to what we had previously. Personally, I wouldn't even mind if tire warm-up is more difficult. Race starts already happen on warm tires, and tire blankets are available in the pits when needed.
Perhaps with those changes alone, we'd end up with calmer, cleaner, and more enjoyable online racing
.
