Hypercar tire v1.2.3 - excessive reduction of peak slip angle ?

TurboArdu

TurboArdu

New member
Hello, these days I drove the Hypercar on LMU for the first times after the v1.2.3 update and I found them the most difficult cars I've ever driven on a sim.
I recalled them being almost the easiest cars in LMU back in october 2025, due to the very high lateral (and longitudinal maybe) slip at which the grip peak occurred. And that was not ok... but now they felt bad the opposite way.

So, given that I'm quite inside tire modeling and their data analysis, I had a look at loggable tires data and made a quick comparison between an old log I had and one recorded with the new tire model:

Lamborghini SC63 at Lusail, default weather and temps, medium tires, 4th lap after outlap.
Temps and pressures were really close, carcass temps difference within 6°C and pressures within 15kPa.
Pure lateral (=cornering with almost no longitudinal slip applied) - in the new log i tried to do lateral slip sweeps, going from zero to almost full lock steering wheel angle, while the old log was a regular race lap, where I show 3 corners only.
I know that grip vs slip curves shapes are dependent on tire load too, but I tried as much as possible to do the same corners at the same speed. Anyway, usually the change in peak slip angle vs load is of 1 deg each 2000-3000N, much more than the difference I have between compared logs here.

Lateral grip normalized on vertical load [N] vs Slip angle [deg]
with a curve that tries to fairly approximate the trend of the points and the peak of grip vs slip highlighted.
Look at the positive slip angle side of the graph, because it's where the tire is the outer one.

Old tire (pre v1.2.3) - grip is peaking at about 10 deg of slip angle and barely dropping off after that:
Immagine1.png

New tire (post v1.2.3, actually v1.3) - grip is peaking at about 4 deg of slip angle and dropping off significantly after that:
Immagine3.png

New and old data overlapped:
Immagine2.png


On the new tires the grip peak occurs at ~6 deg lower slip angle, which in my humble opinion is a freaking big reduction.
And when you add the change in drop-off after the peak to that, it's like day and night.
And I didn't look into longitudinal and combined behavior yet.

In my opinion the change introduced with v1.2.3 it’s a move in the right direction, but it’s a bit overdone.
What do you think about it?
 
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i find it very hard to drive with these tires now. to me, it feels like a step back. it's impossible not to spin with wet tires now. i dont know how people aren't spinning. I can go 30 around a corner and it just spins out now. i'm so tired of it. i dont even want to play anymore; and im not even that slow. these games need to stop changing sh1t that doesnt need to be changed.

do you have any tips for these new tires; or some different settings? i can go 3+ laps and they aren't even fully up to temp yet. theres no way it's more like real life. the way these drivers push irl there would be spinning like crazy
 
While there are many out there that are finding these just fine and massively improved over the terrible model from before, I can’t help but feel that this all stems from the terrible lack of feel for oversteer (and any other meaningful details tbh) in the in game FFB.

I implore any of you struggling with the new Hypercar tyre to try it with a good preset on the lmuffb app. They feel by far and a way the best tyre model S397 have produced to date in LMU. I’m worried this noise from the few that can’t get on with it will make them change it again…

So, while -6 degrees is a big change, I feel it’s only because of how overly slidey and forgiving (and just downright awful) the December 2024 tyre model was. The change had to be that drastic to get it anywhere near realistic. Unfortunately, the poor in game FFB (imo) is of course making this difficult for a few to use. Complaining like this is why we got the December 2024 model…
 
aaron0288 said:
The change had to be that drastic to get it anywhere near realistic.
Click to expand...
I disagree with this, to get more and more realistic you have to do proper changes to get closer to real data and handling, not necessarily drastic. Knowing the tire model of rF2/LMU, if you make drastic changes you have high risk of fixing 1 aspect of the tire and breaking 3 others.

aaron0288 said:
Unfortunately, the poor in game FFB (imo) is of course making this difficult for a few to use
Click to expand...
Losing grip out of nowhere at rear and spinning while taking the same corner almost at same the steer angle but 2 kph faster, which is what I point out as the main issue, has nothing to do with steering wheel FFB.
 
There is no need to make the game more realistic, we are racing at home, not on the track. All the developers have achieved is a lack of interest in HY and lmp2. Now all races are like a single race, without struggle and intrigue. The main part of overtaking is someone's mistake, locking the wheels or losing control of the car, I have already forgotten the last time I seriously fought with someone in battle. Now the smart guys will write "skill problem", predestining your answers, can you give an example of at least 1 stream or race where there was intrigue? It just sucks, not racing. If pilots could lose control of a car so easily in their lives, not a single pilot would be left alive. IRL pilots arrive at the next track in a week for training followed by a race, but for some reason few people lose control of the car. However, you can drive tens of thousands of laps in a notional Monza and lose control of the car over and over again at the click of your finger. Needless to say, real pilots have significantly less practice on a particular track, but their qualifying time will always be better than yours at LMU, although you have no risks, you are not afraid to die. And no, it's not about professionalism and skill issues, the fact is that the slick and aerodynamics of a racing car allow for much more than the physics of tires in LMU.
 
Been playing LMU since EA with same HY - 499P. I am not a pro and never will be, but Ferrari was always a bit tougher at start but then easier to make fast for me. After last update it is undrivable. I can't do a proper lap on my favourite tracks like Spa or Le Mans without a spin, no matter of how much brake balance is put front. It just randomly sends rear wherever it wants under braking or in fast corners. No warnings, nothing.

Changed car to Porsche and it's the same.
I do wonder how much realistic it really is - real drivers have some issues to get best lap time, make adjustments in setup and go faster.

Currently in LMU world you go out, die without warning, cause you were send flying instead of small error like missing brake point, buy new car, make adjustments, go die on track again and repeat.

Never raced HY on real track, did some laps in other cars and I am still alive, so I think we went too much into absurd path.

EDIT: What I also don't like about new update, and please correct me if I am wrong or I've missed something, practice servers are now deliberately opened few minutes later to general public, than it was before, just to force people into RaceControl Pro. But the result is we have people with less practice on the servers, meaning more crashes, no mater if you pay or not.
 
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When do these spins occur? If, within the first 4 laps of leaving the pits, you are pushing too hard on cold tires. If the spins occur later, then that could be something to look into.
 
Highlandwalker said:
I use to really enjoy driving the Porsche HY car, not any more, just too unpredictable even when the tyres are fully up to temp.
Click to expand...
Same boat. Hypercar atm are so unpredictable … you need to just hard try to memorize what input is needed But many things are not logical. Anyway it is what it is.
 
That's the problem...the unpredictable-ness of the tire/grip.

Doesn't really matter about how many degrees of change, what matters is that grip levels remain consistent while falling off. Going from a grip of "10" to a grip of "3" then to a "7" to a "2" to an "8" is the bigger problem. It doesn't have to be linear to be consistent, it just needs to be consistent.

Deg is going to occur and I believe everyone recognizes the fact that grip is going to go away over time....gradually. Sure cold tires have less grip, cold tires on a cold track are going to have even less, I think this is common knowledge. Excessively hot tires is the same story. So there's the general expectations that everyone has through previous games, descriptions and experiences. When things don't follow normal expectations it becomes un-fun and causes confusion.

Make the tires like ice balls and I'll figure out how to drive around it provided they don't become glue sticks every 4th lap.....or vice versa. Realism is one thing, computational power is the limiting factor here, just make grip (and wear) so it meets normal expectations.
 
Haven't you realized yet that no one cares about your reviews) Skills problem, practice ) This is going to sound ridiculous, but in real life, I can easily skid until my tires explode, in lmu, even in gt3, I can't take a single turn in a controlled skid. Even a simple burnout test, which even a child will do for an lmu, will be impossible, or a very short interval of 10-15 meters, after which you will go into the wall, as your tires will be overheated. The developers don't know what they're doing, or they've never ridden a track, or they just can't do a real tire simulation.
 
I may be missing the point entirely (I often do) but why are you wanting to do controlled skids?
 
In racing, this is not necessary, but in order to understand how much control you have over the car, try to make a burnout past the stands, for example at Fuji, you will not do this, let alone a controlled slide. It's so simple that I can do it on any car in any weather. I've been in motorsport for 26 years and what happens to the tires at lmu is not like real motorsport. A real slick requires aggressive driving from you, not careful and incredibly precise driving like in an lmu. I'll just clarify that I'm riding at the pace of the leaders and I have over 400 wins in lmu, but that doesn't mean we don't need to strive for the best if we want to keep the simulator title.
 
TurboArdu said:
Hello, these days I drove the Hypercar on LMU for the first times after the v1.2.3 update and I found them the most difficult cars I've ever driven on a sim.
I recalled them being almost the easiest cars in LMU back in october 2025, due to the very high lateral (and longitudinal maybe) slip at which the grip peak occurred. And that was not ok... but now they felt bad the opposite way.

So, given that I'm quite inside tire modeling and their data analysis, I had a look at loggable tires data and made a quick comparison between an old log I had and one recorded with the new tire model:

Lamborghini SC63 at Lusail, default weather and temps, medium tires, 4th lap after outlap.
Temps and pressures were really close, carcass temps difference within 6°C and pressures within 15kPa.
Pure lateral (=cornering with almost no longitudinal slip applied) - in the new log i tried to do lateral slip sweeps, going from zero to almost full lock steering wheel angle, while the old log was a regular race lap, where I show 3 corners only.
I know that grip vs slip curves shapes are dependent on tire load too, but I tried as much as possible to do the same corners at the same speed. Anyway, usually the change in peak slip angle vs load is of 1 deg each 2000-3000N, much more than the difference I have between compared logs here.

Lateral grip normalized on vertical load [N] vs Slip angle [deg]
with a curve that tries to fairly approximate the trend of the points and the peak of grip vs slip highlighted.
Look at the positive slip angle side of the graph, because it's where the tire is the outer one.

Old tire (pre v1.2.3) - grip is peaking at about 10 deg of slip angle and barely dropping off after that:
View attachment 14009

New tire (post v1.2.3, actually v1.3) - grip is peaking at about 4 deg of slip angle and dropping off significantly after that:
View attachment 14010

New and old data overlapped:
View attachment 14011


On the new tires the grip peak occurs at ~6 deg lower slip angle, which in my humble opinion is a freaking big reduction.
And when you add the change in drop-off after the peak to that, it's like day and night.
And I didn't look into longitudinal and combined behavior yet.

In my opinion the change introduced with v1.2.3 it’s a move in the right direction, but it’s a bit overdone.
What do you think about it?
Click to expand...
I don’t have your professional analytical skills, but my subjective feeling tells me this: take Lusail, for example. The hypercar's driving window is so narrow，No matter which brand of hypercar I use, I can barely manage a single clean lap. Constant wheelspin makes me feel like I’m walking on eggshells. If I’m not careful with the brakes, they lock up. I might spin on corner entry or exit. Flat spots on the tires appear quickly, and it turns into a vicious cycle. It’s even more torturous than driving an old-school F1 car with no aerodynamicsWalking on eggshells and dancing on a wire. If the hypercars in LMU are truly realistic, I can’t imagine how such difficult cars could even survive a 24-hour race in heavy traffic — those drivers must be possessed by gods. After driving hypercars, hopping into GT3 or LMP3 cars feels like they’re glued to the track. Hypercars only give you that solid, planted grip in high-speed corners. Sigh… when it comes to these prototype monsters, my skill level is only good enough to find solace in the LMDh cars in AMS2. Even the Group C cars are far better behaved than these beasts.
 
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Highlandwalker said:
I use to really enjoy driving the Porsche HY car, not any more, just too unpredictable even when the tyres are fully up to temp.
Click to expand...
You're not alone. Just look at those mixed-class races — usually there are dozens of GT3 cars, with just four or five lonely hypercars tagging along
 
PushkaGonka said:
There is no need to make the game more realistic, we are racing at home, not on the track. All the developers have achieved is a lack of interest in HY and lmp2. Now all races are like a single race, without struggle and intrigue. The main part of overtaking is someone's mistake, locking the wheels or losing control of the car, I have already forgotten the last time I seriously fought with someone in battle. Now the smart guys will write "skill problem", predestining your answers, can you give an example of at least 1 stream or race where there was intrigue? It just sucks, not racing. If pilots could lose control of a car so easily in their lives, not a single pilot would be left alive. IRL pilots arrive at the next track in a week for training followed by a race, but for some reason few people lose control of the car. However, you can drive tens of thousands of laps in a notional Monza and lose control of the car over and over again at the click of your finger. Needless to say, real pilots have significantly less practice on a particular track, but their qualifying time will always be better than yours at LMU, although you have no risks, you are not afraid to die. And no, it's not about professionalism and skill issues, the fact is that the slick and aerodynamics of a racing car allow for much more than the physics of tires in LMU.
Click to expand...
If the aim is not realism, we can pack up our things and go home.
 
Ho3n3r said:
If the aim is not realism, we can pack up our things and go home.
Click to expand...
There is a market for simcade type racing. Half a dozen console racers all fit that niche.(& probably outsell sims aiming for realism by a lot...)
If learning the dynamics of the tires et al is not fun, then pick up Forza or any of those other fun games.
 
Ho3n3r said:
If the aim is not realism, we can pack up our things and go home.
Click to expand...
Usually in virtual driving sims, a more realistic tire behavior is also more pleasant to drive at the limit, so I agree.
The old Hyper tire model was a pain because you had to clinch the perfect 4 wheels slide every corner to gain time; the new tire is just frustrating because the 3 same brakings or the 3 same corner done different by just 1 or 2% of brake pressure or steering can randomly result in going straight, being perfect or spinning around.
 
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At this point, it seems very evident that this tyre model is far too unpredictable and has limits that are too narrow. As many people have pointed out, if you exceed the optimal steering angle or tyre pressure by just a few millimetres or a tiny amount, you either lose the car or lock the brakes. It doesn't feel like a realistic reaction at all.

They are probably aware of this issue, and the only thing we can do is wait and hope that it can be fixed someday. In any case, it also seems clear that this tyre model has eliminated a problem that existed with the previous one, which allowed drivers to gain time by sliding the car. I'm not saying excessive drifting, but it was possible to slide consistently and still be faster, which is not realistic either over the course of an entire race.

To fix that issue, however, it feels like we've ended up at the opposite extreme. The tyres have become far too sensitive, and they can no longer tolerate even the slightest overstep before losing grip or becoming unstable.
 
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