G Challenge results manipulation

[DingBatDave]

Dare I add a bit of balance and logic to the discussion, as some of you have clearly got a little too involved and are blowing this wayyyyyy out of proportion. You’d have thought we were discussing a murder case the way some of you are talking.

Now look, I of course agree that these sad little people that feel the need to cheat in computer games are pathetic. But they’ve been found out and it turns out Logitech and S397 check each lap time for this exact thing anyway, so what more do you want them to do? You ban them they’ll just make new accounts under different names. It’s what sad, desperate people like these fella’s do.

And the whole “swear in chat and you get banned but not cheating” isn’t a great comparison. Most of you are calling for a permanent ban for these low life’s, whereas swearing gets you a temporary ban. I get it, I really do, but I just don’t get why some of you are getting so worked up over it.

These little cheaters are really not worth you stopping playing a game you enjoy or getting THIS upset over. It’s just a game. If you’re getting this worked up about cheating in some silly little Logitech competition, perhaps it’s time to step back and get some perspective on things. I’m all for calling these things out, but why let it get to the point where it’s ruining YOUR enjoyment of the game too? Again, they’ve been found out, cheater lap times won’t be accepted anyway. Move on and enjoy the time you get to sim race. Life’s difficult enough as it is!

TLDR So for you. Cheating gets no ban cos it makes no difference anyway? But calling someone bad names in chat is a ban. I'm not sure I can get on board with this ignore cheating scum logic I'm afraid. You do you

 

[Babylon]

I don't think you have been paying attention, If they had just said that cheating of any form will not be tolerated in our game and dished out some form of punishment, We could have moved on, But they did the opposite.

 

[DingBatDave]

I don't think you have been paying attention, If they had just said that cheating of any form will not be tolerated in our game and dished out some form of punishment, We could have moved on, But they did the opposite.

I think there's a lot that chap missed. we didn't need a life time ban we didn't even need a big ban. a week or 2 to show people cheating is punished. All S397 did here was admit in public they only punish bad words and deliberate wrecks. A cheater keeps his creator partner badge thing after cheating and a notorious cheat, Dyre, going back years gets away scott free. And the entire LMU community now know. they are essentially allowed to cheat because its not punished.

It is that simple and this chap has completely missed the mark. A thought occurred to me today tho, what would the other platforms (no names mentioned) have done about this... how would they have handled it. I'm actually really curious i might ask them for comment for the follow up vid.

Just for everyone to know what the alternatives are out there. How your money your time and your intelligence will be treated I feel like is worthwhile information when buying a product like these.

 

[Woodee]

Just going to clarify something for you.

I think there's a lot that chap missed. we didn't need a life time ban we didn't even need a big ban. a week or 2 to show people cheating is punished. All S397 did here was admit in public they only punish bad words and deliberate wrecks. A cheater keeps his creator partner badge thing after cheating and a notorious cheat, Dyre, going back years gets away scott free. And the entire LMU community now know. they are essentially allowed to cheat because its not punished.

"bad words"... Users are sanctioned for using slurs and threatening behaviour, which has no place in any game anyway.

 

[DingBatDave]

Just going to clarify something for you.



"bad words"... Users are sanctioned for using slurs and threatening behaviour, which has no place in any game anyway.

100% agree ban chat abusers. It's not nice at all.
But, No bans for cheaters. Scum who cheat paying customers in the lobbies who work hard to buy the game, the DLCs the more than $100 a year subscriptions. And work hard on their DR and SR and race fair and correctly to get that green badge only to be put in a lobby with 3 scumbag cheaters.
NO BAN FOR THAT.
NO BAN FOR FRIENDS.
NO PUNISHMENT FOR CHEATERS.

Just the poor plebs who pay for everything. They are the ones who get screwed over.
Art imitating life.

 

[Babylon]

Threatening behaviour, which has no place in any game anyway.

But apparently, Cheating has.
Sorry, But it's now gonna be hard for anyone in the S397 stable to take any moral high ground.

 

[aaron0288]

I haven’t missed anything. And of course you’ve completely missed my point as you’re so enraged by this (again, I stated I get it and very much understand where you’re coming from). But is it worth it? And yes, I’ll do me, and you do you. My post was a simple “is it worth all this” after reading through the whole thread. But if you’re willing to keep up with this, be my guest and all the more power to you. I wasn’t completely disagreeing with your sentiment that they should be banned, but as stated, they’ll just make another account and as long as Logitech/S397 are monitoring the competition, which they say they are, these cheaters can’t succeed. I just think a little perspective is needed here.

Just my perspective on it, but you’re clearly very angry about this, so by all means keep pushing for what you believe in, just be careful not to let it consume you too much like it seems to be doing. Would be a shame to let low life cheaters affect you this much. Hopefully S397 will change their mind so you can put this to rest, it just looks like they’ve made their decision and are moving on, however much you disagree with it.

 

[Lazza]

I'll just second that point you're making aaron: the results of the competition (ie the people winning prizes) aren't being manipulated by people doing stuff like this. S397 and Logitech aren't being cheated in terms of who the prizes get to. Realistically any skill-based competition is going to go to one of people at the very top and that's not 95% of players (who simply can't get there due to skill), but when all leading/winning entries are going to be checked for validity none of this cheating will have any impact on who wins.

I can understand that anyone who hadn't considered what some people will do in competitions, might be shocked by what they've seen here and maybe assume that it would get through unnoticed. But from the dev/staff side they've all been around competitions of various types for so long that they always knew this sort of thing would occur, and that it would never be a winning 'entry'. For me a lot of the discussion (not just here) is a clash between these two incoming points of view (mainly).

Obviously all this is aside from the question of what punishment is appropriate, I'm not entering into that and as a mod I have no insight nor influence.

 

[DingBatDave]

I'll just second that point you're making aaron: the results of the competition (ie the people winning prizes) aren't being manipulated by people doing stuff like this. S397 and Logitech aren't being cheated in terms of who the prizes get to. Realistically any skill-based competition is going to go to one of people at the very top and that's not 95% of players (who simply can't get there due to skill), but when all leading/winning entries are going to be checked for validity none of this cheating will have any impact on who wins.

I can understand that anyone who hadn't considered what some people will do in competitions, might be shocked by what they've seen here and maybe assume that it would get through unnoticed. But from the dev/staff side they've all been around competitions of various types for so long that they always knew this sort of thing would occur, and that it would never be a winning 'entry'. For me a lot of the discussion (not just here) is a clash between these two incoming points of view (mainly).

Obviously all this is aside from the question of what punishment is appropriate, I'm not entering into that and as a mod I have no insight nor influence.

Hello Lazza. Please do not muddy the waters.
Again it's publicly stated by LMU Employees they do not punish CHEATERS. They Only Punish wreckers and chat abusers.

This is not about competitions anymore. Again. Publicly stated by an employee. In normal race conditions, dailies, regardless the competition or not. Only chat abuse and intentional wrecking is policed.

This is the reason/excuse given to the entire playerbase for not punishing 3 cheaters,, Dyre, addison and Pilko who were caught red handed.

There is no need for inserting incorrect narratives that this is in competition. The position you are holding is now in contradiction to what we have been told by LMU devs.

 

[robevery1971]

The issue you have here is what users see,

As many have said, you are ruthlessly over the top with hurty words, really? Is that really such a big deal? It happens every day, in every server I have ever been in and you will never get rid of it, 99.9% of people ignore it, from both sides. Yes some go too far, I did once and it cost me, but not being able to play a game for a month for saying some hurty words to some moronic idiot who drove me off the track seems a bit excessive and is something you will not find anywhere else much, you back the minority to the hilt when 99.9% of people really don't give a toss.

It's about perception and this has been a huge marketing perception fail.

Why is this entire challenge based on races, not hot laps, why have any rank or badge system involved, all that matters is laptimes is it not? Who cares what rank and badge you are in that direction, it's meaningless.

It was obviously so open to cheating. I don't care if they are outed and get caught, the perception given to most of us is very poor and for some you will struggle to retrieve it.

 

[Blue_Monkey]

View attachment 14968
Like many I've been knocking around the internet pretty much from it's birth being a man of age, And in that time have come across many a comment that could be classed as tone deaf, And this, This Is up there with the best of them.
In that one paragraph every bit of good will they have garnered up over the months has been eroded, People will still drive, But that comment shows just how much contempt they have for the general player, Buy the game and the DLC and keep us in business when things were tight and we were going to the wall, Now we are on pretty good standing, You peasants can do one and police yourselves unless you get Pro, This has nothing to do with us guv.
Do they really not have someone to proof read over at S397 before the post button is pushed, Do they not know how the internet works, Do they not know how easy it is to start a fire than to put it out, It don't matter what they say or do now, This has now got a life of it's own, The internet will do what the internet does, People will start going through race replays, Looking at, And scrutinizing results, That comment there started the ball rolling, Now sit back, Grab the popcorn, And see how big it gets and what it takes down on it's journey.

The solution is easy:

• always record full telemetry
• autosubmit lap + last sector if time is in the top 100
• If telemetry is missing, time deleted
• do random checks for top 100 of all leaderboards for cheating (grip cheat, engine cheat, fake/manipulated telemetry, etc.)
• always check top 20 of a competition ...
• keep telemetry for 1 year, except when wipe (due to significant balance changes, delete them) or when in top 20 (always keep except wipe)

Meanwhile
Im furiously attempting to cancel my subscription for the last 4 days straight and when i click the manage button, it does one of 2 things. it pops up a spinning loading wheel for ever or the most recent it does absolutely nothing!

record it (video of your screen), contact support, worst case: charge back ...

 

[Lazza]

Hello Lazza. Please do not muddy the waters.
Again it's publicly stated by LMU Employees they do not punish CHEATERS. They Only Punish wreckers and chat abusers.

I was responding mainly to the thread title "G Challenge results manipulation" and something you said in one of your posts, "S397 have been cheated by known members of their community, the sponsors Logitech have been cheated in their $35000 event. Every racer who goes into those lobbies now is thinking, i can't win this cos its all rigged."

None of this is true in the light of all winning entries being manually validated. This is all in regards to the competition, not general, but these are your words. I think it's important to separate that, and I was addressing that point only as I said.

 

[DingBatDave]

Indeed Lazza and since this started with just 3 cheaters and has evolved into 3 cheaters and complete inaction by the Devs to the point instead of the studio and the sponsors being cheated or attempted cheated, not the subject has expanded in to the entire community being cheated by the complete inaction of the studio to punish cheating in the game.

two things can be true at once. ANd the conversation continues in this expanded scope particularly since staff have confirmed that cheating is not policed. This is the wider and far more serious issue now than just the cheaters. In point of fact the cheaters are in a way to be thanked for bringing this to light.

Again inaction confirmed by S397 staff. Cheating is not punished in le mans ultimate daily races.

 

[aaron0288]

Indeed Lazza and since this started with just 3 cheaters and has evolved into 3 cheaters and complete inaction by the Devs to the point instead of the studio and the sponsors being cheated or attempted cheated, not the subject has expanded in to the entire community being cheated by the complete inaction of the studio to punish cheating in the game.

two things can be true at once. ANd the conversation continues in this expanded scope particularly since staff have confirmed that cheating is not policed. This is the wider and far more serious issue now than just the cheaters. In point of fact the cheaters are in a way to be thanked for bringing this to light.

Again inaction confirmed by S397 staff. Cheating is not punished in le mans ultimate daily races.

But cheating is “policed”. I’m not sure how many more times it needs to be stated, but every lap put forward for prizes is manually looked at. These guys never would’ve won anything and their actions have rightly been called out by yourself and now many others. Their names are out there, they look like the clowns that they are and it was all for nothing for them.

S397 have obviously recently incorporated an anti cheat system to the game too. What is starting to happen here is a witch hunt over some immature cheaters in a relatively small sim racing game. This thread would make sense if they were turning a blind eye to these shenanigans and letting them win prizes of substantial value, but they’re not. What you’re claiming here that the devs are happy to let cheaters cheat is simply not true.

 

[Babylon]

But cheating is “policed”. I’m not sure how many more times it needs to be stated, but every lap put forward for prizes is manually looked at. These guys never would’ve won anything and their actions have rightly been called out by yourself and now many others.

So, What bit of "We only police intent wrecks and chat abuse in daily races" did you not understand, Or was skipping that bit your defense of S397.
Do you not get it, That is the the one line that has got everyone's back up, There not turning a blind eye and letting them win prizes, They are just turning a blind eye, And remember.

 

[Aysedasi]

But cheating is “policed”. I’m not sure how many more times it needs to be stated, but every lap put forward for prizes is manually looked at. These guys never would’ve won anything and their actions have rightly been called out by yourself and now many others. Their names are out there, they look like the clowns that they are and it was all for nothing for them.

S397 have obviously recently incorporated an anti cheat system to the game too. What is starting to happen here is a witch hunt over some immature cheaters in a relatively small sim racing game. This thread would make sense if they were turning a blind eye to these shenanigans and letting them win prizes of substantial value, but they’re not. What you’re claiming here that the devs are happy to let cheaters cheat is simply not true.

The bottom line surely is that many of us would expect swift public punishment to be meted out to the three drivers involved. To me, the prize issue is almost a red herring as what they did strikes at the very core of fair online racing.

 

[Blue_Monkey]

S397 have obviously recently incorporated an anti cheat system to the game too.

Which everyone knows is only good for the simple, cheap/free cheats. Unfortunate truth, they are ineffective against professionally made cheat software.

The cheaters mentioned in OP need a permban ... not doing so is like getting away with murder irl (analogy) ...

 

[Babylon]

What is surprising, Or maybe it's not surprising,Is the deafening silence from the so call YouTube content creators/Influencers.
Just search LMU Cheating and see what comes back, 4 results in relation to this, One the OP's, One UKOG and 2 smaller creators, Even UKOG makes light of it really with a can I beat the cheaters time, And we are what, 5 days in.
Nothing from the ❝ Big❞ boys, Nothing from Broadbent, Kireth, Jardier, Baldwin, Even GamerMuscleVideos is silent, And he likes nothing better than to jabber on for 7 hours in a video about an LMU update or a bit of oscillation in a FFB setting, But on this, Not a peep.
Maybe it is just us, Maybe we are in our own little bubble, maybe we should just suck it up and play the game, Whatever that may be, But it is also good to know that as long as I don't do a Max Verstappen or call someone a **** in chat, Anything goes and the chance of a ban is diminished.

 

[DingBatDave]

But cheating is “policed”. I’m not sure how many more times it needs to be stated, but every lap put forward for prizes is manually looked at. These guys never would’ve won anything and their actions have rightly been called out by yourself and now many others. Their names are out there, they look like the clowns that they are and it was all for nothing for them.

S397 have obviously recently incorporated an anti cheat system to the game too. What is starting to happen here is a witch hunt over some immature cheaters in a relatively small sim racing game. This thread would make sense if they were turning a blind eye to these shenanigans and letting them win prizes of substantial value, but they’re not. What you’re claiming here that the devs are happy to let cheaters cheat is simply not true.

Are you trying to bury the thread in misinformation on purpose or by accident? Rhetorical question
Cheating is rampant in LMU and devs who are employees of the company have confirmed they do not punish it.

If you want to have a conversation talking about that then suggest you contact the devs I am making conclusions based on qualified comments from S397 employees, your opinions are yours but fully irrelevant to the conversation as they are superseded by S397 employees confirmations.

 

[DingBatDave]

What is surprising, Or maybe it's not surprising,Is the deafening silence from the so call YouTube content creators/Influencers.
Just search LMU Cheating and see what comes back, 4 results in relation to this, One the OP's, One UKOG and 2 smaller creators, Even UKOG makes light of it really with a can I beat the cheaters time, And we are what, 5 days in.
Nothing from the ❝ Big❞ boys, Nothing from Broadbent, Kireth, Jardier, Baldwin, Even GamerMuscleVideos is silent, And he likes nothing better than to jabber on for 7 hours in a video about an LMU update or a bit of oscillation in a FFB setting, But on this, Not a peep.
Maybe it is just us, Maybe we are in our own little bubble, maybe we should just suck it up and play the game, Whatever that may be, But it is also good to know that as long as I don't do a Max Verstappen or call someone a retard in chat, Anything goes and the chance of a ban is diminished.

there have been 4 videos made on it so far as i know to this point and im told by Michi that he is also working on a video as well as the Chinese chap who is working content for the chinese version of youtube.