Lack of feeling grip

[Fingers]

I brake quite aggressive, but at high speed the wheels should not lock. In some incidents I still did not understand what happened, even watching the replay in slow motion.

Moreover, my lmp2 is set to 75% on braking, in the base the game suggests 67%, and my HY is 100%. I prefer to move the BB to the back to avoid locking the front wheels (51.9), but even if the wheels lock, the car has residual inertia and after a short lock and a small understeer, it should return to the line, as in the last example in the Dunlop chicane in Lemans/499.

And as you correctly noted, everything happens so fast that it defies the laws of physics, have you ever seen a WEC where the car would spin like that on braking?

In the LMP2 I push the bias forward 2 or 3 clicks, the peaky tought nature of the car has the back easy swapping places at low speeds. The right hander after indi at LeMans for eg.

 

[aaron0288]

Yeah me too, no idea how you manage more brake bias to the rear on the LMP2. But hey, it clearly works for you, I’m no where near as fast as you

 

[RhinomanWC]

Yesterday I had 3 amazing races and I have something to show you) I came straight to qualifying in Monza/lmp2, in the race on the 3rd and 4th lap I set a fast lap time of 1.38.8 - 38.9 and suddenly I lose the car, out of nowhere, I didn't have time to understand anything, just a sharp turn, I could have driven straight into the gravel, but there were no signals of concern.

Right after the end of the race I see that in 1.5 minutes the WEC for 75 minutes starts, there was no time to prepare again, but surprisingly in 5 minutes of practice and 10 minutes of qualifying I drove steadily and set the best lap time.

I start my race, warm up the tires, and immediately decide that I will save a little fuel since the consumption is x2, the GTE is ahead, I release the gas, ride calmly for a while and do not brake much and suddenly lose control, I do not understand what it was, but thank you for being alive) Then after the first segment I go into the pits and without changing the tires, I go out, not having time to gain enough speed I try to turn safely and suddenly the car takes off into the sky, what the hell? 38 seconds of repairs. crooked steering wheel and a painful second segment . I decided to repair the car, but not change the tires for all 3 segments, in order to save 36 seconds, and now 3 laps before the end, thanks to saving fuel and not changing the tires, I manage to get ahead of the leader a second faster, I tried to drive very carefully, the LMP2 behaved predictably, when suddenly I overtake the GTE, brake with a straight steering wheel and again lose traction ...

Then I decided to drive the final race in Lemans, I arrive 4 minutes before the end of qualifying, take a Ferrari (last week I drove a BMW), I make it to the qualifying lap and start first, but already 2 minutes after the start in the third chicane I get blocked again ... I drove for 30 minutes, taking a lot of risks and now I'm breathing down the leader's neck. But I'm already smart, I thought and I start to brake a little earlier in the place where I lost the car and .... and again there I dance tango What a cancerous day for me ... But fortunately for me, the leader makes mistakes too and I'm already on his tail, on the last lap in the Dunlop chicane I start my braking a little earlier and not very effectively, when suddenly there is a lock again, but thank you that I realized this and drove into the gravel (finally this is exactly what I would like from a simulator and let me drive into the sand, the main thing is not to die on a level place))

In conclusion, I will say that I got great pleasure from the game, in some places my butt was burning But in Monza I finished 3rd, Sebring and Lemans despite a big loss of time I still managed to win. Of course tomorrow I will not make such mistakes, because I came everywhere without training and practice, but this only once again confirms my words that information is not always enough, and sharp breakdowns have nothing to do with irl, the car can slide a little, but the rubber bites into the asphalt, the wheels can even jump, the butt dance, but a sharp turn on braking is beyond my understanding. For those who read to the end -1 second in the race

This is quite familiar to me, at Le Mans and Monza I lose the car on EXACTLY the same spots you do. I don't race at Sebring much at all. In another post I stated driving in LMU is like walking the plank in pirate movies, everything is perfectly ok and then all of a sudden you're over the edge and out of control. But because you're blindfolded you don't know exactly when you're going to go over the edge. It's fascinating how there seem to be different opinions with the force feedback and grip in LMU. I get some people will be frustrated at hearing about this because their experience is different. For us that don't get the feedback we need it's almost a game breaker, which I suppose is why we're so vocal about it. Either way I respect each person's viewpoint because it based on their own experience. And the devs have requested feedback on the game, so here it is.

 

[RhinomanWC]

In an LMH when you have full battery it'll be as if you've suddenly shifted your brake bias very far backwards. It will be very unstable on the brakes. It is the opposite in an LMDh, where it'll just lock the fronts and miss the corner.

The hypercars in general I think when they go in a fast corner they're liable to let go quickly. I think this is something to do with aero. How when the car is off balance the aero platform is unsettled, which can affect the total amount of downforce as well as where the downforce is strongest. Removing grip from all 4 tyres or from mainly one end of the car.


The crashes in this video look crazy to me. They happen so quickly. I can see what you mean but don't know how you've done this. Like you spun leaving the pits, though you did somehow bounce over a bump. But it doesn't even look like you're going very fast when these spins happen.

I'm nowhere near as fast as Pushka but our experiences are quite similar. This is daily driving in LMU for us, it is crazy and happens very quickly. If only we could diagnose with certainty what is going on we could avoid it.

 

[RhinomanWC]

It certainly depends on what car you drive too. Porsche curves is always a good place to test this out. The Alpine is so on the nose and responds so quickly to tiny steering inputs, it’s a nerve wracking experience going through there in that. Same can be said for the Ferrari for me.

At the other end, the 963 is a blast through there, as is the Peugeot. Still no walk in the park, but infinitely more controllable balancing the throttle and steering inputs. I’m going to try out all the Hypercar’s through there, but more often than not, the Porsche and Peugeot are the best feeling cars for me at most tracks. The Caddy is a close third but it’s just that bit looser. In a playful way though compared to the Alpine and Ferrari, nice and controllable, but not the quickest through or kindest on your tyres!

This is all with standard set ups btw, I’m sure I could help things with learning how to get a decent set up and tweak things to help a bit with those cars, but Le Mans can bite and sometimes it’s just best to go with what you’re comfortable with there.

I have the same experience, Porsche and Peugeot are quite predictable and grippy through Porsche curves. Perhaps that's why it's called Porsche curves . Doesn't explain why the Peugeot is so good through there though. I have to say the 2024 Peugeot (with the wing) is quite excellent to drive.

 

[RhinomanWC]

This is very much where I'm at. I drive generally with the default settings, tweaking the brake bias and the TC settings and that's about it. I've tried the CDA setups in the open races but struggle to get on with them. Unfortunately setups are very much an alien art to me and, if I'm totally honest, I just don't have the discipline to learn the process.... I just want to drive.....

I'm nowhere near good enough to make use of the Coach Dave setups. I figure they're for fast experienced drivers. The standard setups are more comfortable for me to use. And like you Aysedasi, I just want to drive!

 

[RhinomanWC]

In the LMP2 I push the bias forward 2 or 3 clicks, the peaky tought nature of the car has the back easy swapping places at low speeds. The right hander after indi at LeMans for eg.

Same here, I run a heavy forward bias. In many online races with LMP2's other cars are spinning out left and right, and unused to be one of them. Since I started pushing the brake bias forward I spin out less frequently in LMP2's.

 

[Owen]

I brake quite aggressive, but at high speed the wheels should not lock. In some incidents I still did not understand what happened, even watching the replay in slow motion.

Moreover, my lmp2 is set to 75% on braking, in the base the game suggests 67%, and my HY is 100%. I prefer to move the BB to the back to avoid locking the front wheels (51.9), but even if the wheels lock, the car has residual inertia and after a short lock and a small understeer, it should return to the line, as in the last example in the Dunlop chicane in Lemans/499.

And as you correctly noted, everything happens so fast that it defies the laws of physics, have you ever seen a WEC where the car would spin like that on braking?

Yeah it looks weird to me. I haven't seen anything like it.

 

[dom.au23]

Things like feel, grip, tightness through arms and shoulders, wheel settings etc all have an impact in what you can feel. A lot of these you may think you are doing what’s needed but all these little things have an impact, and that impact may be lesser or greater than another based in skill and experience.

Just keep playing with settings and be very self critical to do as much as you can to negate the negatives you feel.

 

[RhinomanWC]

Things like feel, grip, tightness through arms and shoulders, wheel settings etc all have an impact in what you can feel. A lot of these you may think you are doing what’s needed but all these little things have an impact, and that impact may be lesser or greater than another based in skill and experience.

Just keep playing with settings and be very self critical to do as much as you can to negate the negatives you feel.

Quite true. After I adjusted my setup to be more stable I was more consistent and could focus on driving. I don't have a rig though so that's only so much I can do.

 

[Dan W]

The tyre compounds previously had their working temperature ranges adjusted. This was done to make sure that we can use the compounds beyond the limited conditions they are used IRL. For example, running in much colder conditions that they would be able to IRL, it was very difficult to get our tyres into the working range at all. That was frustrating for beginner players especially, but also advanced players. We are now happy where those windows are placed, but we are working on adjusting the warm-up (and overheating) curves to bring back a more pronounced cold tyre phase

 

[RhinomanWC]

The tyre compounds previously had their working temperature ranges adjusted. This was done to make sure that we can use the compounds beyond the limited conditions they are used IRL. For example, running in much colder conditions that they would be able to IRL, it was very difficult to get our tyres into the working range at all. That was frustrating for beginner players especially, but also advanced players. We are now happy where those windows are placed, but we are working on adjusting the warm-up (and overheating) curves to bring back a more pronounced cold tyre phase

Cool, the explanation makes a lot of sense. Thanks for all the hard work you and your co-workers are doing!

 

[PushkaGonka]

I think if FFB lost % of power when the rear wheels slipped, it would give more stability. If the car settings are "dangerous", then it is impossible to understand at what point the rear axle starts to slip, only by sound and visually you can determine that something is wrong.

 

[DurgeDriven]

You can't just jump into ISIMotor and drive it like oh AC ACC AMS2 yadda....

You got to man up !

 

[Lazza]

I think if FFB lost % of power when the rear wheels slipped, it would give more stability. If the car settings are "dangerous", then it is impossible to understand at what point the rear axle starts to slip, only by sound and visually you can determine that something is wrong.

That would lead to instantly turning a bit more just as the rear starts to step out. I don't think that's going to help.

Visual is probably your best clue, a high refresh screen will help, and being ready for it if you're that close to the limit.

Real life drivers, with literally real life feedback (seat of the pants feel etc) do crash sometimes when pushing. When they do multiple race stints without crashing it means one thing: they're leaving some margin.

I think a lot of sim racers are doing constant qual laps, which isn't a realistic goal as soon as there's any variation in grip.

 

[dom.au23]

Real life drivers, with literally real life feedback (seat of the pants feel etc) do crash sometimes when pushing. When they do multiple race stints without crashing it means one thing: they're leaving some margin.

I think a lot of sim racers are doing constant qual laps, which isn't a realistic goal as soon as there's any variation in grip.

This. Real drivers probably sit at 95-98% during a race. There’s just too much to risk putting in 100% every lap for an hour plus. Quali, yes, it’s a single lap but not a 30 lap stint.

 

[PushkaGonka]

That would lead to instantly turning a bit more just as the rear starts to step out. I don't think that's going to help.

Visual is probably your best clue, a high refresh screen will help, and being ready for it if you're that close to the limit.

Real life drivers, with literally real life feedback (seat of the pants feel etc) do crash sometimes when pushing. When they do multiple race stints without crashing it means one thing: they're leaving some margin.

I think a lot of sim racers are doing constant qual laps, which isn't a realistic goal as soon as there's any variation in grip.

I don't know about Lmp2 and HY, but in F4, you drive at the limit all the laps, if the tire is sliding, it just slides, continuing to slow the car, usually it's one less loaded wheel, more often the front axle jumps and tries to cling to the rubberized track again. If the wheels are locked under braking, then you just drive straight, you don't suddenly spin, as if you were tripped or dropped an anchor ... Also, the tire does not overheat at the speed of light, that you suddenly lose traction. In real life, the tire is very hot at the entrance to the corner due to the fact that it cools down quite a lot on the straight and if you are slow, you will drive past the corners. My experience and practice say that rF2 simulated the behavior of the tire best, as well as the early version of lmu. Those who say the early tyre was too safe have probably never driven a race car with high downforce, the car rides glued to the track, even in moderate temperatures.

 

[Aysedasi]

I don't know about Lmp2 and HY, but in F4, you drive at the limit all the laps...

Whatever the situation may be in what I would term 'sprint' racing, i.e. races of relatively short duration, it certainly isn't the case in endurance racing.

 

[PushkaGonka]

I'm not hinting at anything, but I think this should stay here) This is a race in peak online, the first split, where 15 people are driving a lap of 1.49-1.50. I started preparing for the qualification and gradually increased the pace, I could have done even better, but I played it safe. Leading in the race, I pressed the brakes a little and I spun, and then I drove and watched everything that you will see in the clip, this is just one race and so many mistakes, even from experienced pilots, who can often be seen in the leaderboard, there were probably more moments, but I did not watch each participant, but only wrote down what I saw. Despite the fact that the temperature was 35 degrees, and the tires warmed up to an operating temperature of 75 degrees, almost everyone lost control. This can be described as a new week, the drivers have not yet had time to get used to the fact that in a couple of days everything will be fine, that many brake late and so on, but here's what I'll tell you before this race I drove HY/ LeMans where the intrigue remained for all 30 minutes until the very finish, after that I participated in Monza in a multiclass in the rain and even there everything looked more than decent even in T1 despite the super difficult conditions, then I went to Bahrain